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diabetes and dumping???is there a link???
- Thread starter lisa x
- Start date
Dell
Active Member
I had just been diagnosed with diabetes earlier this year and don't APPEAR to dump, but its very early days and the only sugar I have had was the Muller Corner that made me realise how much sugar was in it - if that makes
However, dumping was explained to me thus:
The part of the intestine that has the insulin receptors in it is moved right up to your pouch opening when they do the bypass, so for starters the sugars in food hit these receptors sooner and also, the receptors think that your stomach is still huge, not the size of an egg-ish, so they send the message to create enough insulin as if your entire OLD stomach was full of sugar, not just your little pouch, hence dumping.....not sure if that makes sense or is even true btw, just what I was told!
However, dumping was explained to me thus:
The part of the intestine that has the insulin receptors in it is moved right up to your pouch opening when they do the bypass, so for starters the sugars in food hit these receptors sooner and also, the receptors think that your stomach is still huge, not the size of an egg-ish, so they send the message to create enough insulin as if your entire OLD stomach was full of sugar, not just your little pouch, hence dumping.....not sure if that makes sense or is even true btw, just what I was told!
hsmel
New Member
Excellent answers Angie - would give you rep but I have to spread it around more apparently!!!
Dumping is not nice . . I have dumped in a light headed heart palpitation way on custard (low fat ambrosia). I have dumped in a serious almost fainting nauseous way on orange juice (at breakfast in a hotel when I could not check whether it was concentrate or how sugary it was . . moral of this story is always dilute it to be on the safe side!) and have dumped in an 'omg what is the quickest way to the loo' way on something with too much fat in it!
I am now extremely cautious when I am not at home for obvious reasons!!!
My only observation re dumping is that I am far more likely to dump (in any form) if I have not eaten for a while. If I regularly graze I can get away with a square of chocolate or a reasonably sugary orange juice . . but if I had either first thing in the morning - or after a break without food of say more than a couple of hours - the results would not be pleasant! This certainly adds strength to the argument that it is the rush of sugar/fat going into the small intestine out of the pouch that causes the dump. If the pouch (and intestines) have some food left in when adding the 'dumping food' perhaps the effect is lessened or eliminated as it is 'diluted' by what is already there?
Think the whole dumping issue is interesting - perhaps we should compile a list of everything that people dump on? I know we are all different but it would be quite helpful to see if there are things we should definitely avoid! I experiment at home but now eat extremely carefully when out!
Dumping is not nice . . I have dumped in a light headed heart palpitation way on custard (low fat ambrosia). I have dumped in a serious almost fainting nauseous way on orange juice (at breakfast in a hotel when I could not check whether it was concentrate or how sugary it was . . moral of this story is always dilute it to be on the safe side!) and have dumped in an 'omg what is the quickest way to the loo' way on something with too much fat in it!
I am now extremely cautious when I am not at home for obvious reasons!!!
My only observation re dumping is that I am far more likely to dump (in any form) if I have not eaten for a while. If I regularly graze I can get away with a square of chocolate or a reasonably sugary orange juice . . but if I had either first thing in the morning - or after a break without food of say more than a couple of hours - the results would not be pleasant! This certainly adds strength to the argument that it is the rush of sugar/fat going into the small intestine out of the pouch that causes the dump. If the pouch (and intestines) have some food left in when adding the 'dumping food' perhaps the effect is lessened or eliminated as it is 'diluted' by what is already there?
Think the whole dumping issue is interesting - perhaps we should compile a list of everything that people dump on? I know we are all different but it would be quite helpful to see if there are things we should definitely avoid! I experiment at home but now eat extremely carefully when out!
StephieAck
I know Ive changed!
Well I was type 2 diabetic pre-op, I had known about it for around four years, though I had felt bad for a lot longer than that. Post-op I do dump, relatively easily actually. Not on natural sugars like fruit but if something has more than 8-10g of sugar per 100g then I dump. I have no plans to push the envelope and see if I can make the dumping happen less by accustoming my body to sugary things, Im just going to stay away from them.
Steph xx
Steph xx
lisa x
is very happy!
hsmel
New Member
Hi Lisa - No I was not diabetic pre op but it is in my family (hence one reason for wanting surgery before it got me!). If anyone knows the thread that lists food people dump on please head me in that direction I am sure it would be useful to look at as I bet there are foods on there that I had not considered to be a 'risk'.
lisa x
is very happy!
mel..
this is the most recent one....I think it s wise to act gingerly around everything..
http://www.wlsurgery.com/wlsurgery/132789-what-do-people-dump.html
this is the most recent one....I think it s wise to act gingerly around everything..
http://www.wlsurgery.com/wlsurgery/132789-what-do-people-dump.html
ditzeeblonde
New Member
Interesting thread... I was diagnosed with diabetes at the beginning of this year & had my op 9 months after diagnosis... it would appear that I don't dump at the moment. x
What an interesting thread. Pre-op I was a badly controlled type 2 diabetic. On oral meds but about to start insulin! I have been one of the lucky ones and essentially woke up from anaesthetic with my diabetes in remission. No meds needed since that day!
Anyway do I dump? Not really sure. I have an intolerance of many foods post op and anything mildly sweet makes me want to gag. If it does get into my pouch then I immediately vomit and feel really awful for a few minutes. BUT I have not had the shaking and diahorrea.
Anyway do I dump? Not really sure. I have an intolerance of many foods post op and anything mildly sweet makes me want to gag. If it does get into my pouch then I immediately vomit and feel really awful for a few minutes. BUT I have not had the shaking and diahorrea.
This is an absolutely gripping read for me... and I'm so interested in this subject.
Can I just ask three more questions if no one minds please....
1. From just your experience... is there any research or information (not to technical for me please, because I have to think simply i.e. idiot's guide) to people who have had gallbladder issues developing diabetes... because that certainly happened with me.
and
2. Since we are told that obesity can cause diabetes... what are the statistics regarding onset in terms of age and is it recorded as early onset or late onset diabetes because of weight?
3. What are the statistics for diabetes going into remission for the over 50's... is it more unlikely to go into remission if you are older?
Thankyou and especially to Lisa and Angie for raising so many questions.
Love and hugs to everyone. xxx
Can I just ask three more questions if no one minds please....
1. From just your experience... is there any research or information (not to technical for me please, because I have to think simply i.e. idiot's guide) to people who have had gallbladder issues developing diabetes... because that certainly happened with me.
and
2. Since we are told that obesity can cause diabetes... what are the statistics regarding onset in terms of age and is it recorded as early onset or late onset diabetes because of weight?
3. What are the statistics for diabetes going into remission for the over 50's... is it more unlikely to go into remission if you are older?
Thankyou and especially to Lisa and Angie for raising so many questions.
Love and hugs to everyone. xxx
Stellap
At goal at last.....
I'm a type 2 diabetic in remission since the surgery. I don't dump as such, my stools merely become a little softer if I eat large amounts of sugar but it has to be quite a large amount and I actually eat something high sugar (i.e. dried fruit or cereal) when I am constipated as it resolves it without giving me bad diaorrhea and not having to take lots of medicated preparations (i'm really anti medication since not having to take my diabetic meds now). Maybe our bodies get used to high amounts of sugar when we were diabetic and don't react as a non-diabetic person would.
angie790
New Member
1. Our typically Westernised high saturated fat/high sugar diet and more sedentary lifestyle is essentially the underlying cause for the current obesity epidemic....as obesity plays a large role in driving the progression of both gallbladder disease and type 2 diabetes, then it stands to reason that increasing obesity statistics will also correlate with increasing diagnoses of gallbladder disease & type 2 diabetes.
Diabetes UK suggest around 1/4 of all people with type 2 diabetes in the UK are undiagnosed, and as it can take anywhere from 5 - 10 years before diagnosis, it also stands to reason that one may get diagnosed with gallbladder problems before being diagnosed with overt diabetes.
2. Difficult question to answer, as I cannot find much on correlated data re. age of onset of type 2 diabetes...although around 2.8 million people in the UK have type 2 diabetes...just under 5% of the total UK population. Clinically, 'early onset diabetes' was in traditionally used in reference to type 1 diabetes, typically diagnosed in children & young adults under the age of 25. However, this phrase is now becoming more widely used to describe type 2 diabetes seen at a younger age. Type 2 diabetes used to be seen more typically in overweight/obese people over 40, but is now becoming far more common in younger adults and even children...the difference however is type 1 diabetes is autoimmune driven and always insulin dependent, whereas type 2 diabetes in younger adults/teenagers can be greatly improved with exercise & a diet change, just the same as when is it diagnosed at an older age.
3. There is no information at all on diabetic remission in over 50's without WLS....with WLS it is approx. 80% irrespective of age...but this depends on how long that person had diabetes and how well-controlled it was prior to surgery. Anything over 10 years, suggests that while hyperglycaemia may become easier to manage, total remission may not be achieved.
Phew....hth xxxx
novamay
Born Free
A very useful and informative thread - thanks for starting this off....
I agree with not wanting to push dumping too far and I hope I can avoid sugary foods as much as possible (if not totally), because the fear of having a really bad dumping session will be the only thing that'll stop me eating sweets and such.
I'm T2 diabetic; diagnosed in 2003 following routine tests on my underactive thyroid - I got it about 20 years earlier than my parents and grandparents did - they were classed as 'age onsett' - all were large but not as heavy as me at the same age. Obviously, I know that my diabetes was brought on earlier because of my weight and because I do have a sweet tooth. I'm on oral meds at the mo, but was threatend with Insulin earlier this year and that made me pull my neck in a little bit but sadly I have slowly reverted back to eating sweeties - I am my own worst enemy!
Hopefully, I can work with the surgery (or promise thereof) and over the next year get the desire for sweet things out of my system before I go under the knife.
Diabetes was first described to me as "a train (the insulin) that goes around your body without picking up the passengers (glucose)", so I have been in a state of confusion since then as you can imagine!
I agree with not wanting to push dumping too far and I hope I can avoid sugary foods as much as possible (if not totally), because the fear of having a really bad dumping session will be the only thing that'll stop me eating sweets and such.
I'm T2 diabetic; diagnosed in 2003 following routine tests on my underactive thyroid - I got it about 20 years earlier than my parents and grandparents did - they were classed as 'age onsett' - all were large but not as heavy as me at the same age. Obviously, I know that my diabetes was brought on earlier because of my weight and because I do have a sweet tooth. I'm on oral meds at the mo, but was threatend with Insulin earlier this year and that made me pull my neck in a little bit but sadly I have slowly reverted back to eating sweeties - I am my own worst enemy!
Hopefully, I can work with the surgery (or promise thereof) and over the next year get the desire for sweet things out of my system before I go under the knife.
Diabetes was first described to me as "a train (the insulin) that goes around your body without picking up the passengers (glucose)", so I have been in a state of confusion since then as you can imagine!
lisa x
is very happy!
Thank you Angie...
nova may...
I do think this is an interesting subject...
For me the reason why I am having this surgery is to get control of the diabetes(being thinner is just the cherry on the top!)
I hope when you have your surgery you can come back and tell us if you dump???
xx
nova may...
I do think this is an interesting subject...
For me the reason why I am having this surgery is to get control of the diabetes(being thinner is just the cherry on the top!)
I hope when you have your surgery you can come back and tell us if you dump???
xx
Thank you to everyone in particular Angie (and for the email and reading... I'll be printing it and finding the time to become embroiled in all of this... thank you so much.
Nova, the very best of everything to you and it sounds as though you have read well around this subject... and thanks for supporting me with the daily diet diary it does help us along.
Angie, thank you from the bottom of my heart for this marathon... it's a fascinating topic and Lisa & I have been touching around the edges for ages... so this is brilliant.
I have never managed to find any evidence from my limited research regarding the incidence of remission for the over 50's and those type 2 insulin dependant, plus discussion around management of insulin and control prior to surgery.... naturally impairing outcome.... my reason for the question is that having had repeated infections of a serious nature since early treatment which affected my immune system... my diabetes at present is very difficult to control... just overcoming pleurisy... which is lingering with a lung infection etc etc and as such being older... with other diabetic complications... I'm bracing myself for a life time of insulin.... I no longer take oral meds and had a terrible reaction to those so I'm depending on insulins to help me.
My vision is affected as a result of diabetic retinopathy & I have loss of feeling in my hands and feet (I have been burned and bleeding and not known). A lot of damage is already done in my case.
It's thanks to my Diabetic Specialist that I'll be having the surgery in the new year (should have been 2009-10 but had to deal with cancer).
Anyway enough ramblings...
I wouldn't wish it on anyone... particularly younger people and if anyone reading this has a chance to avoid it through diet.... I wish I had my time to go over again...
Thanks everyone and thanks for inputting so much time and energy into this thread.
It's truly brilliant.
Love and hugs as always to everyone xxx
Nova, the very best of everything to you and it sounds as though you have read well around this subject... and thanks for supporting me with the daily diet diary it does help us along.
Angie, thank you from the bottom of my heart for this marathon... it's a fascinating topic and Lisa & I have been touching around the edges for ages... so this is brilliant.
I have never managed to find any evidence from my limited research regarding the incidence of remission for the over 50's and those type 2 insulin dependant, plus discussion around management of insulin and control prior to surgery.... naturally impairing outcome.... my reason for the question is that having had repeated infections of a serious nature since early treatment which affected my immune system... my diabetes at present is very difficult to control... just overcoming pleurisy... which is lingering with a lung infection etc etc and as such being older... with other diabetic complications... I'm bracing myself for a life time of insulin.... I no longer take oral meds and had a terrible reaction to those so I'm depending on insulins to help me.
My vision is affected as a result of diabetic retinopathy & I have loss of feeling in my hands and feet (I have been burned and bleeding and not known). A lot of damage is already done in my case.
It's thanks to my Diabetic Specialist that I'll be having the surgery in the new year (should have been 2009-10 but had to deal with cancer).
Anyway enough ramblings...
I wouldn't wish it on anyone... particularly younger people and if anyone reading this has a chance to avoid it through diet.... I wish I had my time to go over again...
Thanks everyone and thanks for inputting so much time and energy into this thread.
It's truly brilliant.
Love and hugs as always to everyone xxx
lisa x
is very happy!
Angie ....
ohh i just looked in my inbox...Thank you Angie..like Bev I will read through them when I get a few spare mins at digest it all.(i cant read with the kids around..i ending not taking it in.)
I really Appreciate you sending it to me...
Bev...
Have you been taught the DAFNE(Dose Adjustment For Normal Eating) for your insulin and food regime.
I have not....I was just told by nurses to add doses up or down accordingly..
I have requested to go on the DAFNE course but there is a waiting list in our area!!
I just wonder of this course would benefit you Bev.
Like you ..its fearing the unknown as far the insulin regime is concerned...
In February I go on a milk diet(to lose 5% body weight)..it has been hinted that my insulin will be halved and then reduced (or increased!!)so in a bazaar way I am getting a trial run before my op in June.(all being well)
Like you Bev I have more questions regarding diabetes and the WLS than the WLS itself(which I have researched to death)
It is something that is not publicly easy to research.
I am now trying not to over think the process of reducing the insulin and hoping that the specialist at the hospital are easy to get in contact with ..as I can only be guided by them..as will you Bev...
...we can only hope for the best and do as we are told ...... x x x
ohh i just looked in my inbox...Thank you Angie..like Bev I will read through them when I get a few spare mins at digest it all.(i cant read with the kids around..i ending not taking it in.)
I really Appreciate you sending it to me...
Bev...
Have you been taught the DAFNE(Dose Adjustment For Normal Eating) for your insulin and food regime.
I have not....I was just told by nurses to add doses up or down accordingly..
I have requested to go on the DAFNE course but there is a waiting list in our area!!
I just wonder of this course would benefit you Bev.
Like you ..its fearing the unknown as far the insulin regime is concerned...
In February I go on a milk diet(to lose 5% body weight)..it has been hinted that my insulin will be halved and then reduced (or increased!!)so in a bazaar way I am getting a trial run before my op in June.(all being well)
Like you Bev I have more questions regarding diabetes and the WLS than the WLS itself(which I have researched to death)
It is something that is not publicly easy to research.
I am now trying not to over think the process of reducing the insulin and hoping that the specialist at the hospital are easy to get in contact with ..as I can only be guided by them..as will you Bev...
...we can only hope for the best and do as we are told ...... x x x
We'll get there Lisa... we are sensible and listen to our Specialists...
I'm being well looked after thankfully, since my Oncologist, speaks to the Diabetic Specialist before my reviews and if it weren't for them I'd never have even considered WLS... since I thought I'd never be eligible ... so I am thankful and I never say never... let's keep positive and keep hopeful... plus touch wood for luck that we can get this disease in remission!
Love and hugs Lisa xxx
I'm being well looked after thankfully, since my Oncologist, speaks to the Diabetic Specialist before my reviews and if it weren't for them I'd never have even considered WLS... since I thought I'd never be eligible ... so I am thankful and I never say never... let's keep positive and keep hopeful... plus touch wood for luck that we can get this disease in remission!
Love and hugs Lisa xxx
thinnerangela
New Member
I had insulin controlled gestational diabetes when 32 and 36.
Became type 2 at the age of about 40 - put up with the diarrhoea of metformin for about 18 months tried another oral drug then went on insulin which I was on for over 10 years when I had my WLS.
My surgeon felt the reason mine didn't resolve immedieately - which it normally does after a DS - was because I'd been on insulin for so long.
It took 11 months - no insulin for over a year now. HbA1c always about 5 since!!
When I did my pre-op diet ( the low cal low carb one) I halved my insulin then increased it slightly according to my blood sugars - I also went back to 4x a day testing.
Incidently hubby had diabetes associated with cirrhosis - which underwent spontaneous remission - he now has diabetes associated with his transplant and the anti-rejection drugs - but his insulin is always being adjusted downwards according to how many hypos he has!!
xxx
Became type 2 at the age of about 40 - put up with the diarrhoea of metformin for about 18 months tried another oral drug then went on insulin which I was on for over 10 years when I had my WLS.
My surgeon felt the reason mine didn't resolve immedieately - which it normally does after a DS - was because I'd been on insulin for so long.
It took 11 months - no insulin for over a year now. HbA1c always about 5 since!!
When I did my pre-op diet ( the low cal low carb one) I halved my insulin then increased it slightly according to my blood sugars - I also went back to 4x a day testing.
Incidently hubby had diabetes associated with cirrhosis - which underwent spontaneous remission - he now has diabetes associated with his transplant and the anti-rejection drugs - but his insulin is always being adjusted downwards according to how many hypos he has!!
xxx
