Dissappointed in the system.

[PoppyCorn]

Hi Lisa

I'm sorry if you're feeling a little 'battered' by some responses, but you do need to realise that this route is really drastic and life altering.

I suffer with depression, anxiety and familial high cholesterol - and before my op I was also a type 2 diabetic.

I'm a smoker *everyone boos and hisses*. Tbh if I was told to give up as a condition of having the op I would have done it, I think. I'm glad I wasn't asked to do that though as I need something to relieve my stress now I no longer even have the option of food...however damaging it may be.

I had to complete group therapy for binge eating disorder which I was really upset about as this was after I'd lost the required weight and I thought they were just taking the p*** really. But it was more helpful than I could have imagined, as it got my emotional eating under control and I stopped feeling shame about how I ate for the first time ever.

So in short (or long...) what I'm trying to say is that there is a reason for the hoops, they're not just there to wind us up. Plus I think it's their way of sorting the 'wheat from the chaff', if you can't hack a 12 month commitment how will you cope with one that'll change your whole life?

I sincerely wish you luck in your journey.
Poppyx

 

[dreamofbeingslim]

Hi Lisa, I am worried that you think this might happen quickly. I will tell you about my journey.

I have tried various diets over the years ww, slimming world etc with varying results. I saw my gp for quite a long time trying to loose weight with things like orlistat which I tried 2 or 3 times but loose so much then it goes back on again. She finally asked me how I felt about attending our local hospitals obeisity clinic. I agreed and first went for an appt in October 2007. I initally was put on a milk diet (of which you will hear plenty of on various posts). I lost 3 stone in 3 months then gradually started to introduce food. I was also put on a weight loss tablet (that has since been withdrawn) that triggered depression. Hence the weight went back on and more besides. At the end of my year at the obesity clinic the consultant suggested bariatric surgery. I agreed and he put me forward for funding in December 2008. I didn't meet the criteria so had to apply to the exceptional cases panel. The following Aug 09 it went before the panel and funding was refused. We appealed twice and was denied funding again. In this time I went on to develop high blood pressure, mild sleep apneoa and limited mobility. So my gp who is excellent and I shall be forever grateful to her sent in new medical info and it went before the panel again Jan 10. Finally funding was approved and my surgery is booked for 26th July 2010. Just wanted to tell you all this as you have to prove you have tried everything possible and that you will have a long wait. I so hope you do get the funding you require but it is a very emotional journey and takes lots of fight and determination. Good luck. If I can be of anymore help let me know.

 

[dreamofbeingslim]

Sorry thought I should add that even if you get the funding you have to have various checks with surgeons and psychologists and still might not get the surgery.

 

[petshell]

Lisa
I can see where you are coming from.
I also see that you have done what the NICE guidelines suggest and that is attempted diets and tried medication. Even if it is 7 years ago!
Do you fit the NICE criteria as in high BMI and other comorbidities such as diabetes?
No where have I seen give up smoking as a requirement!
I know people who have had the op and smoked. Not saying I agree but it is not listed as a requirement.
As for making demands on the NHS most of us have probably done it in one way or another. I was lucky enoguh to have an understanding GP so once I hit the critera he referred me, until that bit he wouldnt and explained why.
YOU GO FOR IT AND I AM SURE MOST OF US ARE BEHIND YOU X
GOOD LUCK X
Shells
x

 

[angelicheart]

Hi Lisa i wish you and everyone in here all the best with your journy, first thing to do is give up smoking, i know its hard i am ex- smoker but you will do it, i understand what you saying regarding doctors and what they say, i have been on orlistat for over 2 years, i have tried so many ways to lose weight, i do lose some and i just get it back doubles, my advice Lisa is to be patience, it does take sometime for things to start working, i am just waiting, with the help of people in here and their advice time will pass, see if you can read the post by puffinrub its quite useful, i wish you all the best Lisa woooooohooooooooo you can do it Lisa )))))

 

[petshell]

me again................ Some people have waited years for the op. However, it depends on the area health authority area.
I had to wait until i got diabetes before i could get a referral. However, from the time my GP wrote the referral and gonig under the knife was exactly 5 months. During that time I started making life changes and lost 2 stone. Those life changes have saved my sanity post op!! If I had not have dieted and got my head round not eating I would be a wreck by now, as I have had problems post op and 2 1/2 months later I am only jsut managing some normal foods.
So my suggestion to you is:
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT Send a letter to GP listing everything you have done in the past x years to lose weight, how much you have lost and how uch you have gained.
I would also copy it to the PCT panel too!
Check your PCT criteria and if you fit it then CHALLENGE the GP via a polite letter x
Whilst fighting use this time to make some life changes. Quitting smoking and losing weight at the same time! hahahahaha -I am a nurse and I know that most health professionals would suggest you do not try both at the same time as you are setting yourself up to fail.
So perhaps cutting down on cigs and making healtheir changes to your diet is a start.
YOU CAN DO THIS XX
Shells
x

 

[lisa x]

Hi..thank you for all your responses..

Here is some answers to a few of the questions.
I am in the process of quitting smoking..I know its bad for me..but I am determined to quit for this surgery.
I was in doctors office today and she showed me the form for the pct, and because the cut off time was 18 months for medical(prescribed) help I was one month out...
I am now back on the orisat and booked in to a quit smoking club at the drs surgery...again i am doing what is being asked.
My bmi is 50.4 based on my weight this morning.
I realise this is is not going to happen over night.i have never said i wanted a quick fix.or think it will be easy.i feel this is my last option.
I lost my biggest amount of weight 7 years ago on orisat.
I have been on it 3 times since and have done very poorly on it...my dietian doesnt think it is the diet but a mixer of insulin and lack of exersise..
For the last few years I have followed the dietitians diet to the letter,in a quest to maintain healthy blood sugars.
I have been diabetic since I was 18. I am now on 5/6 shots a day. For the last 6 years(since my son was born) as i have really struggled with my blood sugars(not through poor diet i should add,before i get lynched again..lol)
carbs are my enemy..
I am just so annoyed at my g.p who doesn't take me seriously and seems to be very reluctant to apply to the pct.

I hope this answers some of the questions on here.
I know this isn't a quick fix but after 4 years of asking I am still not even off the starting blocks.
i guess i am just very frustrated right now.
xx

 

[seawaves]

Hey Lisa, with regards to smoking, i am a smoker i started when i was 14 so thats 24 yrs of being a smoker!!, i'm not proud of it but it is a habit that is hard just to give up, i gave up for 12wks (cold turkey style!) before my preop but i admit i have had some slips since, my op is in september so i know i have got to try harder but as i say its hard!!
With regards to journey time everyones is different i first went to my doctors in feb 09, after trying everything under the sun!! i got my funding in december, surgery will now be september, so yes it has been a pretty long journey but personally i'm quite pleased its taken this long because i have had time to think & research & make sure it is the right decision, Good Luck with your journey

 

[dottychic]

Have any of you tried Champix? They are tablets to help you give up smoking. I had 2 strokes 3yrs ago and was a heavy smoker, (80 per day!!) I HAD to quit, I really didnt think I could do it, and to be honest I didnt want to, I enjoyed smoking. I tried the Champix, and Ive never smoked since, I actually was in hospital with the 2nd stroke whilst on it, sat outside with the smokers and it didnt even bother me! Its 3 yrs now and Ive never smoked. I do fancy one now and again but not given in. Ask about them at the docs, good luck X

 

[seawaves]

Jacqui, thanks for that i shall ask my doctor (if i can ever get an appointment!)

 

[dottychic]

Good for you Its got to be worth a try, all my family said if I can do it then anyone can lol X

 

[ChefClay]

Hi Lisa, try and perservere with your doctor. Both my GP's were against WLS and tried to persuade me against it. I just found out yesterday that my op is in Sept, just over 18mth from my initial enquiry. Re the NHS, I can only speak well of them up to now. I waited 21yrs to have both knees replaced and a few yrs to have both shoulders repaired! I just count myself lucky that I can eventually have these ops to improve my quality of life! Now for WLS, the NHS can certainly do without the likes of me draining their resources, ha ha! Seriously though, we all sometimes take things for granted. Give some thought to how long it took you to put on your excess weight, then compare it with maybe an 18mth wait+, you should then start to get things into perspective! Best of luck anyway Lisa, really hope all goes well and you eventually get your op. Remember then, that the op is only the 'real' beginning of your journey. I am afraid it is never ending, but it just gets better - Paul x

 

[dreamofbeingslim]

Keep fighting the fight Lisa and if no joy at your current surgery swap practices if they won't take you seriously. Good luck.

 

[lisa x]

wow thanks again guys.I am over whelmed by the responses here.
I have to agree with you Paul. my hospital and diabetic team and other departments I have visited over the years have been great.I do appreciate the NHS. (i wouldn't be here without it.)
Its my g.p I have issues with. I just wish they would take me seriously.
I will add here the reason I went back to gp this week is because my endocrinologist has written to them asking why I have not been put forward yet.He was even going to apply to pct for me(after I told him the history of my gps.)
But he rang me back stating it would be better coming from the gp as they have all records of everything needed.
lisa x

 

[PuffinRub]

Hiya,

Your General Practitioner works for you so he's not doing you a favour by referring you which means he's not doing his job properly. If he refuses to refer you then speak to your surgery's Practice Manager and complain.

The above said, most of the PCTs or SCGs require that "all non-surgical measures have been investigated and exhausted" before funding weight loss surgery. Find out why he's not referring you, it might simply be because he's trying to ensure that you get the best chance of funding later on down the line. If he refers you with a BMI of less than 50 and you haven't tried tablets and haven't tried a weight management programme then funding will either be flat refused or you'll be referred then made to do the above under the control of the hospital which might well be located a long way away as opposed to your G.P.'s surgery.

Regards, Ade.

 

[jayceeme]

I do get a bit surprised sometimes at peoples attitudes that they can just demand to be put forward for wls etc. I honestly dont think you have any right to complain about having to give up cigarettes and go on orlistat for 3 months to prove you are dedicated to wls, why should you be given it at the drop of a hat when the NHS is cash strapped as it is, people are being denied cancer saving treatment etc so a bit of patience wouldn't be too much to ask!!

I'm not saying you shouldn't be entitled to free wls on the NHS but demanding it is just going a bit too far. They have every right to ask you to try and prove that you are dedicated to wls before they give it to everyone who asks for it. A gastric bypass is over £10,000 so its only common sense they require you to do a bit of ground work before they give the go ahead!

The right approach would have been to see your doctor, explain to him/her that you have tried every diet known to mankind and while they may work for a while the weight just goes back on plus some more and would they kindly refer you for weight loss surgery as you think it would be the only thing to work for you and that you dont mind doing whatever is necessary to qualify for it!....would that not have been a better approach than 'demanding it'


I do hope you get your wls as you obviously need it but I do think you are going about it the wrong way!

Jaffa

I agree totally with what you say, surgery is not a "quick fix" and it does NOT change your lifestyle, YOU have to do that, that's why the process takes so long, you need to see counsellors, prove you can lose weight and keep it off, and teach yourself to live a better healthier life, yes, it works, but you have to work with it! The band doesn't stop you craving, smoking, overeating- multi mini meals -can get passed the band. You have to have discipline, dedication, and you have to want to do it! It takes nearly TWO years from start to surgery, there is a reason for that.

 

[jayceeme]

hi ..
ok..I see how this looks to you and hands up about the smoking(its bad and yes I am committed to stopping)..
but you please don't misjudge me here.:cry: when you do not know my full story. (or medical history!!)
I don't expect things at a drop off a hat..far from it.:sigh:

I wrote on this forum because I am frustrated by the system in place.especially my gp(I have done all that they(dr) has asked.)
i have been on orisat 4 times over the last 7 years. i have asked for help in every way shape and form.from psychiatry to weekly weigh in and dietitians. gym.
i have done everything that has been asked of me.but they wont apply to the pct for me...even though I hit criteria.I have been asking for 4 years now:cry:
I feel the oristat is just my drs way of trying to prolong it further.again the story is toooo long.
When I say demand you have to realise i have been laughed out of the doctors office more times than I care to remember when I have requested help in this way(wls).
So maybe demand is a strong word but asking does not seem to get me anywhere.
I hope this clears up a any misunderstandings here.
lisa x

Sorry Lisa, only read your fist post and jaffa cakes reply before I added my bit, was pleased you added to your post and how it makes sense for you to push for your surgery, my best wishes for your chances of a speedy outcome xxxx

 

[lisa x]

Hiya,

Your General Practitioner works for you so he's not doing you a favour by referring you which means he's not doing his job properly. If he refuses to refer you then speak to your surgery's Practice Manager and complain.

The above said, most of the PCTs or SCGs require that "all non-surgical measures have been investigated and exhausted" before funding weight loss surgery. Find out why he's not referring you, it might simply be because he's trying to ensure that you get the best chance of funding later on down the line. If he refers you with a BMI of less than 50 and you haven't tried tablets and haven't tried a weight management programme then funding will either be flat refused or you'll be referred then made to do the above under the control of the hospital which might well be located a long way away as opposed to your G.P.'s surgery.

Regards, Ade.

hi Ade
I have exhausted all avenues,but the orisat was 1 month short of the cut off date on the form.
I learnt along time ago that complaining about the G.P to (my)practice manager,gets you nowhere other than a letter of apology and a slight investigation.
I agree that the g.p should be working on my behalf but she quoted to me "things should be done natuarlly" and that major surgery isnt the answer.not just for me personally but for everyone.

She even admitted whilst giving me my prescription,that i hit criteria..
but i have to take the oristat,(because of the time scale...see previous posts.)

i questioned her about if i lose weight on oristate then i wouldn't have a bmi over 50.(+co morbidities)
even though the orisat does not work for me!!
if in a small miracle i lose weight(on my 5th attempt with orisat) ..my bmi will then not hit criteria....catch 22..
she admitted i was right and that to go take orisat and do it naturally..
all i can do is do as i am told right now.
me and my patner are going to look into changing practices.
Lisa x

 

[Glenville]

Lisa,
I would recomend you try and avoid losing any weight until you have been refered to the bariatric team and had them weigh you. There is a slight chance you may not fit their criteria and until you know that don't risk it.

I don't understand your Drs attitude. What is natural about injecting yourself 5-6 a day with insulin. Even if you lose weight "naturally" you will always be diabetic and have to cope with insulin related issues. The wls would help so much in that respect. I was diabetic for 15 years and was injecting 4 times a day and my blood sugars were still out of control. Now, 8 months post-op no injections are required. That sounds a bit more natural to me. I've also chucked the CPAP mask for sleep apnea, BP meds reduced, anti-Ds no longer required. Your Dr is failing to realise what "natural" is.

If you don't get any positive response then dump your Dr and find one that knows what "Natural" means.

 

[BlueDiamond]

Lisa,
I would recomend you try and avoid losing any weight until you have been refered to the bariatric team and had them weigh you. There is a slight chance you may not fit their criteria and until you know that don't risk it.

I don't understand your Drs attitude. What is natural about injecting yourself 5-6 a day with insulin. Even if you lose weight "naturally" you will always be diabetic and have to cope with insulin related issues. The wls would help so much in that respect. I was diabetic for 15 years and was injecting 4 times a day and my blood sugars were still out of control. Now, 8 months post-op no injections are required. That sounds a bit more natural to me. I've also chucked the CPAP mask for sleep apnea, BP meds reduced, anti-Ds no longer required. Your Dr is failing to realise what "natural" is.

If you don't get any positive response then dump your Dr and find one that knows what "Natural" means.